Flash + Ghost
9/0/21 caster masteries with improved Flash and Ghost.
Greater Quintessence of Fortitude / Greater Quintessence of Swiftness
Greater Mark of Insight
Greater Seal of Clarity
Greater Glyph of Clarity
A good balanced build. Get Mejai's after Deathcap. Get Needlessly large rod first.
Hey guys, Shr34K here, this is my first guide on leaguecraft so i'm looking for feedback on it. I'm familiar with this hero and I hope this guide can help you accomplish the best of him. Veigar is a AP carry, and I think he actually is a great one. He has good ratios and can possibly get very high AP.
He has a weak early game though. This guide emphasizes on getting AP fast, to be able to nuke and hit hard after 10 minutes into the game.
After building him otherwise I always come back to this method because it's the one which works the best for me.
Hope you'll enjoy the read. Feel free to ask questions, and give me constructive feedback.
I'll likely be making other guides for casters soon.
| Very useful passive all along the game. Specially with MP5 runes/Blue buff.
It is what allows us rushing AP items without spending on mana. We're building a kind of "hard" AP carry.
| Baleful Strike
| This skill is mainly used to get early high AP. Don't harass with it.
| Dark Matter
| Meteor. This skill has a few tricks to it.
1. On early EH levels you'll need to position it a little behind the enemy. Since they'll walk out of EH before it lands if you do it on them. (Assuming you stunned them).
If they're very good they'll dodge it by coming towards you. But most opponents I encounter just run back in FEAR, and walk in doom meteor.
2. Trow it in a bush just not to die like an idiot facechecking while Xin and panth are in it.
3. When you trow it from out of sight (behind a jungle wall for example) it harder to avoid. Because the enemy didn't see you cast it. (or they're watching out for you).
4. Spam these in teamfights they won't be avoided.
5. Fuck this it's a goddamn METEOR man, you're so DEAD !
| Event Horizon
| In my opinion, the best stun in the game. Short enough CD, AOE stun, longer than any besides Ashe's arrow. Very versatile. Block of jungle routes. Trap multiple ennemis in nunu's ult. Interrupt multiple AOE ults at the same time. Master it and you will be a great asset to your team.
It's the reason I believe Veigar is underrated. I think he belongs to a higher tier than the one he's in at the moment.
Important note : Clever enemies, specially dashing assassins will take advantage if you used your stun carelessly before. Never miss a stun. NEVER.
What i like about this is that if you get the stun, you can pull off a METEEOOOOOOOOR and a baleful strike and back out before stun finishes. In laning phase it's kind of safe harassment. (Do this after level 5).
| Primordial Burst
| Very high burst. Quite a cooldown with it. Make sure you don't do it on MR stacking mundo. (Who would ?)
Game / Guide update notes :
03/02/2011 : Guide published.
03/02/2011 : Servers are busy, so let's have a first update. Corrected a few mistakes, clarified some points, and went through itemization in detail.
Second update. Servers are down. Why ? WHY ? Ah well at least i'm so bored i'm gonna finish this goddamn guide tonight.
Updated a few new champs to counter. More to come. By the way, I'd like to give credit to Arkandt for his awesome character pictures i STOLE from his guide for Annie. And to the early/mid/late game pics I took from Sorakabot's Evelynn guide.
04/02/2011 : I've been thinking about my hole build/Masteries/Rune setup and I'm going to try some few things out. Including :
- Leveling baleful strike more to be able to last hit all creeps from a wave. (CD is the matter here)
- Rushing a tear of the goddess to be able to do so.
- Trying out flat CDR runes, and Flat AP runes, with each setup.
What makes me want to try this is that I think that there is maybe some flaws in the way I build him according to this guide. I'm having great success with this build, but that doesn't mean it is the best one.
Also, I am rushing an early Deathcap, but if i can get a tear before maybe i'll be able to last hit much more with baleful, compensating for the 1000 gold I do not spend on AP. Furthermore, If I have more mana, I can affort to harass with baleful. Whereas my build doesn't give any harassing power.
The only thing is that I really think that Dark Matter and EH are better Teamfighting tools. However from what I've tried out lately, level 2 or 3 of EH is enough. I'll try it all out these days and update my guide.
After testing some MOAR I think the item build is really good. I'd say you need to reach the 40 creep AP and 2100 gold before the 10 minute mark to have a "great start".
Changed skill order, priorityze baleful over EH after EH level 3.
Added new build, changed old build a bit, and added a few lane counters.
Why pick Veigar ?
First point that we need to clarify is when to pick Veigar. I'm talking about ranked play here. He fits in a team where you need hard CC (By hard i mean the best stun in the game right ? RIGHT ?), and an AP carry.
You should fear dashing enemies. Akali, Kassadin, and all enemies carrying Cleanse, or Flash can counter your stun. Playing against a Kassadin can be painfull. Akali can be shut down with an Oracle elixir.
The only times don't recommend picking Veigar is when they have only beefy champs, or we have already an AP carry that needs mid. Having a solo farming lane is very important to him.
Because if you don't have one, it'll slow you down too much and your effectiveness will come later in game than if you where in a solo lane.
With this guide, effectiveness comes mid game.
Pros / Cons
- Man he reminds me gnome mages in wold of warcraft.
- Gilded Veigar leaguecraft skin is EPIC.
- Life bar disappears in one second. Not 2.
- GREAT asset to a team when played well.
- EH is tA BESt sKill EVeR
- Weak early game. Only last hit at tower, and i'll go very well. Need a few levels under his belt to be effective. A few more levels than other chars i mean. You really need to dodge skill shots.
- He's quite squishy. If you're not good you'll die.
- His skins suck hard.
Masteries + Runes
Usual 9/0/21 with improved ghost and flash
Greater Quintessence of Fortitude / Greater Quintessence of Swiftness
Greater Mark of Insight
Greater Seal of Clarity
Greater Glyph of Clarity
Flash + Ghost. Increased survibality. You will never die. You can also run Flash and Clarity if you're lane opponent is a hard one. Miss Fortune, or Cait are good examples.
I often use ghost when i'm travelling to another lane for a gank. "How did he get there so fast ?"
Start with Boots of Speed and 3 Hpots. With new patch you will need the regen of the pots.
Farm farm and farm. Baleful strike each time it's off cooldown and last hit as much as you can.
First back get Ionian Boots of Lucidity, and Needlessly Large Rod. At this point (You should be around level 9 or 10, and have 40 baleful stacks, or else you're not good at it)
After that you'll one shot the caster creeps, and balefull will be on rather short cooldown.
Next up complete Rabadon's Deathcap.
Then Mejai's Soulstealer.
Then [item=Rylai's scepter] for more survibality.
Then you can either get a Zhonya's Hourglass and a Lich Bane, or a Void Staff and Lich Bane.
Either way you're AP will be really high.
Reasoning is that early AP > Early Mejai.
Because you one shot caster minions, increasing farming, and pushing power if needed. You increase highly you're damage output specially towards squishy sidelane chars. You can already eat 70% of their life with your combo on level 11. (Boots + needlessly large rod + baleful last hits).
You should start getting kills. Finish quickly you're deathcap. You'll now have already around 250 AP. I hit usually 300 at 20 minutes and 500+ after 30 minutes, if the game goes on for over 45 and you don't have 900+ AP there something wrong. Once you got you're deathcap you can feed yourself on casters or squishy carries.
That's why you get a mejai's soulstealer next. The stacking will be even more powerful since you have a DC. After that you need to work on "survivability". Including about 100 AP.. I love rylai's. Slow on baleful can be pretty handy. And AOE slow on meteor as well.
I like my build because you get high damage fast due to skill order and item build. You really snowball, without kills you already have a high damage output, which makes you snowball better. Getting mejai first is not a good idea since you're not strong enough to get kills with only that item.
Zhonya's hourglass is just great for its active. And Lich bane provides you very high damage.
Stun + auto attack + meteor and baleful will most likely kill a squishy target when you're over 1000 AP.
You're ulti will only be for targets you wanna really see drop fast.
[builder=Veigar/f05d2ffa2ec3fe447231f44f30cf528f] Balanced build. [Old one]
[builder=Veigar/e247c850ec61eb082b629eecb799d968] New build.
After thinking about it i'd rather pick up a ROA even if it's a little late instead of Rylai's cause it gives more hit points and more mana. You really don't need the slow after all.
Now let's see what you may need in certain cases.
If they have a fed Kassadin, pick up a Banshee's Veil. Try to make him brake your bubble with his silence by dodging his other spells. Just having this item should give you enough time to stun him. If he doesn't get to silence you he's kind of dead. Get a stun on him and nuke him. Since he's building AP it shouldn't be too hard. If he's building Banshee's/Mercury you will be at disadvantage. Don't take him on 1on1 if so. I not, feel free. Care for his silence, that's all.
If they have a fed Akali, get an oracle. The problem with her is that when you drop Even horizon, she'll use Twilight Shroud and you wont see her. She'll wait for you EH to disappear and then dash to you. And you're pretty dead. But with oracle you nuke her hard enough for her to back off.
Otherwise, if they have a lot of casters (good for you) get an Abyssal Scepter if they have more physical carries get Zhonya's Hourglass. You should'nt be using it's active that much.
There isn't much more to say. Get golem buff on your side when it's up. Always get elixirs, and spare some money for a few wards in their jungle or in the bushes since you're mid.
Since this build is very team fight and early small skirmish oriented it is somewhat sometimes ineffective against a very strong lane counter. If you encounter a hard lane counter, you'll need to have somehow some laning power (that means being able to harass and take him on 1v1)
In that case, you can pick up a tear as a first item, and power level baleful strike.
It'll look like this :
[builder=Veigar/e33445d38c8cd37319a94bd83d79ac3c] First back (Start with boots or Meki)
Then follow with the same build I told you before :
And then upgrade to Archangel
You'll have a much stronger laning presence but a somewhat weaker team fight presence before level 14-15 where the two builds come together.
You're nuking power is also stronger on the other one since you get your AP items faster, but it is balanced by the fact that you can farm more AP with the second.
It's up to your choice. I switch between these two often according to lane counters and team comps.
You'll use a skill order like this if you use the second one :
How to play
Early game :
This is the most important part.
You will be taking mid because it suits you very well. You need to last hit with baleful all the time, and with auto attacks aswell. Early boots will help you dodging skillshots. You need to get 40 baleful stacks at least before level 11. Stay in lane until you have enough for lucinity and needlessly large rod (That's about 2200 gold).
Play very safe, NEVER harass, only last hit. The ennemy will likely push you to optimal last hitting point (Just outside tower range).
Check your opponents summoner spells. Call misses. FARM.
With your mana regen runes and your passive, you will be low on mana, but never will miss out on mana for baleful strikes because of it's cooldown.
Mid game : Kill'em all. You're very good at setting up ganks (AOE stun ? Really ?). Don't forget to activate ghost, or come in from beside their tower, because they most likely will have their river side warded. The best way is to walk through THEIR jungle and come from beside their tower. No wards their, most likely.
It should not be too hard to kill you're lane counter now. Depending on who he is. When you gank you should ping the one you're not targeting, unless you think you can't nuke him to death, that way the others won't waste time/spells on a guy that's is already doomed. Also, check their summoner spells. If they have overextended too much it won't help them much since you can counter flash/Counter ghost them to follow and stun for your team mates.
Late game : Teamfights, You're abilities can completely change it's outcome.
Now, i've seen A LOT of veigars do this wrong. Don't drop you're stun too early, keep it for the important moment. The moment when kata jump in, the moment fiddlesticks comes out of nowhere, the moment that electic ninja tries to rush into all of you. What you need to do is to run around trowing meteors upon them. Until THE one you want to kill shows up;
Veigar has this unique ability right ?
The ability to ONE SHOT someone without them being able to do anything. Choose you're target. Every fight will be 5v4 for them.
How to choose you're target :
1. Fed AP carry who's facerolling your team / AD carry (Same)
2. Support hero
3. Carry/Mage who's not fed
Here are too strategies concerning teamfights. They can be parts of the same fight.
1. 5v4 strategy. Follow you're tank closely. Once he engaged and you see a prime target. Take him out with your full combo straight away. (5v4 ftw).
Then back out (using flash if necessary). Stay far until stun is back up.
2. Against AOE ennemies. KEEP YOUR STUN. Until these ****holes have committed. Stop them in their tracks and take one of them out. Stay out of battle, out of sight until they come in. Then stun while your team is kiting them. They wasted all their ults in your EH/ GG.
3. Against Dashing enemies, prepare to run when you've used you're stun. Clever would be go to hide in a bush for CD's to back up.
All this will come with experience.
After the teamfight :
- Chasing : Use ghost, flash and stun them all for your team.
- Running away : Use you're stun ahead of them. Always drop a meteor on their ulgy faces before backing out more.
Always ask your carry to get you blue buff in late game.
It's very rare to die as Veigar. VERY RARE. I mean if you die more than once or twice that means you have room for improvement :D
Ask for help for golem endgame just to make it faster. If you follow my guide and get needlessly large rod fast enough you'll one shot wraiths through the wall. And almost wolves. Always get yours and your enemies. Hinder their junglers experience game if they have one and you don't. You might accidently kill him. (LOLZ)
So always pick up wraith camp each time is up.
I will try to cover all of them little by little.
With your boots and hopefully your skill you can avoid her frostshots. Maybe picking up Greater Quintessence of Swiftness will help you out. As usual overall strategy is just to farm safely. Her egg means you can't ever kill her without help. Since you're the archetype of High burst high cooldowns. If you can put her into egg form do it thought. She wont have it for later. Call for ganks from a jungler and let her push her lane if she's a dumb bird.
Meteor > Birds anyways.
Annie can be a hard one if she plays well. But if you play well she wont. Because since you're just focusing on farming she'll never touch you. And since she'll never touch you i doubt that she can take you down in one flash + combo. Otherwise what i would do is flash sideways when she flashes towards you; to escape from tibbers. Since you flashed sideways you can stun both of them; Then put a little hurt on her and go back to your tower. You'll gain lane advantage and you will be able to Flash + combo her after your cooldowns are back up. Don't use your ult on the first part i'd advise. Freefarm.
It's all skill heh ? Than be more skilled than he is. If he flashes in to attack you that means he can't flash out of Event horizon. I would advise not trying the flash in + Nuke combo method since he can flash away from it. Unless he's blink is on cooldown. Freefarm.
Not a very hard match. He's silence is the annoying bit but he can't harass you much so just freefarm.
Don't try to kill him before Needlessly large Rod stage. Wait for him to drain before stunning him. Once he gets level 6 he'll try to ult you or your laning team mates from the bush. Be sure to ward. If you don't listen to me and still don't ward, you can still most likely get away, by flashing out of range (he'll probably use flash to get into range) stun behind you. Nuke him. You're out of range while he's stunned. Gtfo. Don't let him get close enough to drain you. Ever.
Not a very hard match either, you can freefarm with him, and kill him later in the game. BUT he can evade your stun. Basic strategy is to harass him without stun. The second he uses Remove Scurvy to heal himselft, well put a hurt on him buy putting a big METEOOOOR in his open mouth. More about him when i will have faced him more. Not much experience against him.
With his recent buff he can be annoying; change your skill order to highly prioritize meteors since you don't want him to get his tower. Last hitting his turrets with baleful means you'll get more AP than against other chars. He can be a hard one. Care for his pushing power. Ask for a gank if you want to take him down. Enjoy late game against him tought. Can't remember if his towers can get stunned. Try to include them in EH ring. He has a slow start thought. And builds AP. Furthermore he builds AP fast due to farm power. That means he's an easy mid game target. Beware of turrets while fighting him. Stuns will do everything.
He has an extremely long range on his LW. But with your early boots you'll dodge almost all of them ; Furthermore they do less damage when you stand beside creeps so it may be better to come closer to him. (I usually play behind my caster minions, far enough for not getting harassed at all (except for some annoying chars, I last hit the melees and let my opponent push hard on the first wave, giving me an advantage on the second and the third one.). You should be able to stun him and nuke out of range of defile. So it's an easy lane. You can kill him earlier than other chars. Good Karthus players are REALLY defensive, a bit like my play style. Good thing is, you'll free farm your Q. Also, if he moves back to his tower it means he's most likely going to ult. Feel free to interrupt with your stun.
This one is annoying. Because you'll have to play even safer than against others. Staying way behind. Never approach in range of shunpo. She'll deal you alot of damage with her bouncing blade even from that range. Wait for mid game to come. Even mid game, you wont be able to take her on 1 on 1. Always gank.
Also be sure to land your stun right on top of her in teamfights. It could change the outcome of it.
Also, if she shunpos through your EH she's stunned. I don't think you can die to her, but she'll hinder your Q farm a bit. You'll get back in farm in mid game.
Unless he's overly agressive (comes to your side of creeps to harass you) you'll be able to farm. If he is, just stun him after his first hit, he'll take damage from minion aggro and you're nuke combo. You may kill him later on. He has very few ganking capabilities compared to you. Run around after his level 6 that should do the trick.
Kennen isn't actually a hard match. His only ranged ability is a skillshot that hit creeps. Stay behind your creeps and you wont get harmed at all. Focus on farming. He'll try to come to you with his Lightning Rush stun him in his path and drop your nuke, and walk away. You can one shot him in team fights if he's causing problems.
I haven't met her in mid with veigar, but since I play her I can guess. If she picks up flash she'll have the ability to close the gap very fast and silence you. If you're fast aswell you can just flash away. Otherwise she can harass with her sigil, but since you'll be out of her range she wont be able to do much more than that. She's a poor farmer, she's looking for kills ; she'll most likely play very aggressive, so you play very defensive in response. With your 3 health pots you should be ok with her sigil harassment. After her level 6 thought it's going to become harder ; she'll throw her ultimate with the sigil dealing way more damage. You'll might have to go back early. Otherwise she's food for you after you get magic rod. She's hard to lock down thought. I'll erase and update with real experience when i'll actually encounter her. Bait her [spell= distortion] before ganking her or trying a flash + nuke tentative.
Hard one. Tower hug. He a very good 1v1 champ so don't be aggressive at all. (If you've read until here you might have already grasped the concept, early game veigar is always passive farm play. Always !)
Beware of flash +ult combo ; but since you're last hitting and he's pushing like a mad man with his Malefic Visions, you'll be safe. Tell your jungler to gank him. Even better. Let him put you at 50% hp and stick with hp pots. Bait him to flash towards you and counter flash. Then ask your jungler to come gank. With no flash you'll kill. Take your pot and do not die in the process of killing him.
I think she is one of the hardest character to mid against. She'll harass you from very far. She can deny you gold and experience if she doesn't push ; she hits very hard. Wait for healing debuff to go before using pot (common sence). Farm at your turret, try to get her ganked from team mates. You really need to shut her down ; Veigar isn't really the smartest choice against her in early mid. In late game thought, you can stun her ult, and nuke her from full to 0. Maybe it's one of the cases you should consider laning instead. Let a good counter to her go mid. (Can't think of one ?)
If you play at a sufficient range he wont harass you. But he can still push your tower down. Same as heimer, farm as fast as possible, and get your Dark Matter going to counter his pushing power. You'll probably be locked mid this game unless you don't care about your tower. Counter mesure here is ganking him. With a good disabler ; Xin Zhao would do great. Don't try to harass him unless you see an opening in his shield passive. Also, in very early it is worth auto attacking him to cripple his shield before casting a spell on him.
Morgana isn't much of a great long range harasser, she won't be a problem for you as long as you don't run up to her like a stupid retard and try to kill her. Freefarm mode approved.
For a long time I argued with a friend of mine on who would kill the other on one on one between Ryze and Veigar. He isn't much of a threat for you in my opinion. You can freefarm. If he comes close enought to snare you (how did you let that happen ?) You can still stun him and outdamage him once you get your rod. The rod is the breaking point. Where you start attacking enemy champions. Don't do anything crazy against him thought. If you miss your stun you're dead.
Haven't met her yet, sorry guys. I guess she's hard and you need to dodge her boomerang. Stay out of range of ricochet and farm. Same as morde and heimer you'll be locked to your tower. Get a ganker.
Being a very experienced Swain player (Love his style)i can give you a few tips. When in ultimate form a stun will waste his mana. At level 5 he eats 60-70 % of your health with his full combo. Don't use your summoner spells in panic if he already DOT'd you to death. What's the point using flash if you're going to die from Ignite + Torment anyways ? Dodge Nevermore and you'll be fine. ( See told you about the boots ! )
Nothing much to say, freefarm and freekill. Play safe though he hurt hard with his blind and autoattacks. A good teemo player will be a pain. But he can't lock you down so you can go gank when you have your ROD. Consider warding, and last hitting shrooms with Q for extra AP.
Same thing nothing much to say, consider maybe picking up the second build with her because you'll shut her farming down better with it. You can lay down a stun before she lands with rocket jump so she's stunned right away. If you're ganking her, wait until she uses rocket jump, or if you're fast enough to stun her right away (Flashing in for example).
He's wild cards are quite slow so your boots should do the trick. Build 1 i'd say. Farming should be easy against him. Beware after he's level 6. He can't teleport gank you cause you can just lay a stun a the place he's teleporting to. If you're fed you can bait him with this trick. Stun him right away and nuke him. He's squishy.
Twitch can be annoying it depends on the player playing him ; but most likely he won't be too much of a problem. Same thing as others there is no trick with him.
Encountered often in mid. He's weak early game. Not weaker than you tho. But he'll be playing safe most likely. One thing is that your stun stuns him while he's pooled. That's great as a defensive or offensive mecanism against him. That means you can actually gank him. You can throw a meteor on him while he's pooled and stunned by your EH if you're good with timing. He'll be unpooled when it lands. Continue with the rest of your combo. The only thing is that he'll be able to farm very easely with you as a counter lane. Get ganks up.
Haven't encountered him yet. Must be a difficult one.
Missing a few ones, like Caitlyn, Corki, Janna, Irelia, Zilean. Don't see them this often so I can't write about them. GL :D
I'll most likely be updating this guide often. Gimme feedback. if you have any questions feel free.
P.S : If it didn't work for you, that means you're not shouting METEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR loud enough. Try again.
Updates coming up soon :
More champion counter, more explanations about item builds, alternative items.